I wanted to start my own thread on own root apples trees. I don’t like grafting due to the time and effort involved just for them to die upon transplanting. Thought I would share some pictures of a grimes golden I t budded summer of 2017. I put a small pot around it and put sawdust around it until it rooted and transplanted it yesterday. I will essentially make a stool bed with the one I moved and have unlimited grimes golden without grafting every year. I plan to try and get several varieties rooted next year so I will have several stool beds. I also will try other species too like persimmons but don’t know if I’ll add it to this thread or not.
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Self rooted apples
- Thread starter DLH
- Start date
I’m going to guess yes because most of what I will be rooting will be older disease resistant southern varieties which started on their own roots. I also will be trying some of the modern disease resistant apples on their own roots but that will be a crap shoot since these probably were evaluated on rootstocks during development. We don’t have very harsh winters here in Kentucky either. I’m hoping some others may take interest in trying these on their own roots in northern climates but I know it’s a risk in doing so.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
You could definitely sell your excess. There are folks who think own rooted heirlooms are superior and plenty more could be talked into that idea. Could be a nice little side business.
I'd suggest trying to root hardwood cuttings from pruning too. Shove your prunings into a garden bed. Success won't be great but any success gets you ahead. Some varieties may root easier and some won't root at all.
I am creating stool beds of out-of-production rootstocks. I got scions from USDA GRIN and grafted onto several rootstocks. I took feathered grafts of Bud 490 on M7 and M111 and buried them laying on their side last fall. I left the feathered branches stick up out of the ground. They flowered and fruited this year but did not grow much. I'll probably let those feathers grow another year before i cut them off and get it stooling. If i get M7 or M111 mixed in, I'll know them from the Bud 490 by the leaf and bark color. For most apples, doing this on B118 would work nicely.
I'd suggest trying to root hardwood cuttings from pruning too. Shove your prunings into a garden bed. Success won't be great but any success gets you ahead. Some varieties may root easier and some won't root at all.
I am creating stool beds of out-of-production rootstocks. I got scions from USDA GRIN and grafted onto several rootstocks. I took feathered grafts of Bud 490 on M7 and M111 and buried them laying on their side last fall. I left the feathered branches stick up out of the ground. They flowered and fruited this year but did not grow much. I'll probably let those feathers grow another year before i cut them off and get it stooling. If i get M7 or M111 mixed in, I'll know them from the Bud 490 by the leaf and bark color. For most apples, doing this on B118 would work nicely.
Mahindra3016
5 year old buck +
Why are your grafted trees dying when you transplant them?
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Stooling is a great idea if you want full size trees. I plan to try something different this year to maximize the size of apple trees in one growing season. I plan to graft as soon as my GRIN order arrives (presuming I can get M111 this early). I will graft them and put them in RB2s and put them in my cold room for the grafts to callus. I then plan to bring them in and put them under lights. My hope is to artificially extend our growing season. Since clonal rootstock has not tap root, I plan to use a single 3 gal RB2 for each tree and hope that with that longer growing season the root ball fills the container by fall.
I can't remember how far north you are. I'm in zone 7a so I don't have cold hardy issues with apples. The master grafter in a class I took told me one technique he would use to get full size trees on their own roots was to graft to clonal rootstock upside down and then plant the tree below the graft. He said the clonal rootstock would support the tree long enough for it to produce its own roots. Because it was grafted upside down, the clonal rootstock would eventually die and the trees own roots would take over.
Not sure if this applies to your situation, but it is an alternative for folks interested in this topic.
Thanks,
Jack
I can't remember how far north you are. I'm in zone 7a so I don't have cold hardy issues with apples. The master grafter in a class I took told me one technique he would use to get full size trees on their own roots was to graft to clonal rootstock upside down and then plant the tree below the graft. He said the clonal rootstock would support the tree long enough for it to produce its own roots. Because it was grafted upside down, the clonal rootstock would eventually die and the trees own roots would take over.
Not sure if this applies to your situation, but it is an alternative for folks interested in this topic.
Thanks,
Jack
sandbur
5 year old buck +
My follow up question .. are you keeping the roots moist and protected before, after, and during the grafting process?
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Mahindra3016
5 year old buck +
And another follow up question, are your rootstocks dying, or dying just from the graft up? I have been successful at grafting so far, so just trying to help.
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I usually put the rootstocks in water while grafting then move the finished graft into moist sawdust until they heal up. They usually die after I try to move them to the final location after the first growing season. I had some m111 that the roots died this year but I usually do the bud118s. If I were to stay with grafting I would plant the rootstock then field graft later to avoid transplanting. I’ve also had plenty I grafts live as well I’ve not had 100 percent failure but I would prefer stooling over grafting. I’m in 6b I don’t have any winter hardiness issues.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
What do you do with them after the grafts heal during that first growing season? I've been putting mine in 3 gal Rootbuilder II containers and growing them on my deck for that first growing season. I then transplant them in the fall but before they go dormant. Trees grown in root pruning containers don't need to be planted dormant as long as they get sufficient water since they are planted with the root system undisturbed. In my case, we get reliable rain in the fall (unlike summer), so planting them before they go dormant is not an issue as far as water is concerned. I try to plant them before we get the first frost. I don't like roots to freeze in my RB2s.
So far, I'm 100%. The major advantage I see in grafting over stooling is the ability to control tree size. If full size trees work for your application, then stooling is a fine way to go. I just wonder if it will really address the issue of trees dying. When you think about it, we are asking a lot of tree with that second transplant. First the graft has to heal. Then, presuming the graft takes. The rootstock has to have enough stored energy to push buds at the same time the root system of clonal rootstock is trying to establish itself. During that first growing season, the leaves need to absorb enough energy to both develop the root system and produce top growth. If you then disturb the root system one more time digging it up, it is like planting a bare root tree. If you can provide sufficient care at the final location during the first growing season, I think grafting and then planting at your final location as soon as the graft heals will give you better success. If you can't provide care at that final location, I think using a root pruning container is a good solution because the final transplant is done without disturbing the root system. You may get better success stooling because the "rootstock" doesn't have to expend energy pushing a new graft and can put more into the root system and top growth.
Thanks,
Jack
So far, I'm 100%. The major advantage I see in grafting over stooling is the ability to control tree size. If full size trees work for your application, then stooling is a fine way to go. I just wonder if it will really address the issue of trees dying. When you think about it, we are asking a lot of tree with that second transplant. First the graft has to heal. Then, presuming the graft takes. The rootstock has to have enough stored energy to push buds at the same time the root system of clonal rootstock is trying to establish itself. During that first growing season, the leaves need to absorb enough energy to both develop the root system and produce top growth. If you then disturb the root system one more time digging it up, it is like planting a bare root tree. If you can provide sufficient care at the final location during the first growing season, I think grafting and then planting at your final location as soon as the graft heals will give you better success. If you can't provide care at that final location, I think using a root pruning container is a good solution because the final transplant is done without disturbing the root system. You may get better success stooling because the "rootstock" doesn't have to expend energy pushing a new graft and can put more into the root system and top growth.
Thanks,
Jack
Just to be clear I’m not trying to solve any problems with trees dying after transplanting the first year. I’m just doing this because I want to and no one really knows about how own root trees would do for our intended purposes. As far as controlling tree size I don’t think that applies since a wild life tree needs to be as big as possible.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I think it is a great idea. I agree on full size trees. I started a bunch of apples from seed to use for rootstock. Some I bench grafted and some I grafted in the field. Those will all be my full sized trees. I left some lower branches from the original tree on the ones I field grafted just in case they produce good fruit. The only problem with a full sized tree is how long it takes to produce fruit. It is clearly a long-term investment. I'm now adding trees on clonal rootstock to get some production sooner. Best of Luck!
Jack
Jack
