Winter rootstock availability?

[BuckSnort]

Jack, I tend to do the same thing as you and try to line up rootstock and scionwood as close as possible. The trouble I’ve read about with M111 are the burr knots and the reccomendation is to plant the graft as close to the soil as possible to prevent that. Wondering if you have a plan in place for planting?

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,

How did you decide on the varieties to graft?

Are you confident they will grow in your region? Clay soils,etc?

bill

My primary criteria was disease resistance. I've been reading posts here and I spent a bunch of time on the GRIN web site looking at disease resistance characteristics. My plan is to establish a reasonable volume of trees and then let nature take it's course. I'll cage them and use weed mats and stone for mulch. After that, they are pretty much on their own. I may spray them with permethrin for the first year or so if the Japanese beetles are bad, but once well established, they are on their own.

My plan was to graft the varieties listed on my GRIN order. When the government shut down, I got nervous. I first grabbed a few scions from my existing trees and then traded for some other reasonably disease resistant varieties guys had. I also ordered a couple Franklin's bare root which are scheduled to come next week. I'll put them in RB2s when they arrive. They are not listed to our zone but I'm guessing they simply have not been on the market long enough this far south for Stark to list them for my zone. I think Stark is only a zone or so lower than me.

As for region, I'm in 7A which is pretty middle of the road. Most apples will grow here. We have commercial orchards in the area. They have similar heavy clay soils and they tell me M111 is the best semi-dwarf for our soils. I'm sure some of these trees will do better than others in our area but I would expect most will be fine.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Jack, I tend to do the same thing as you and try to line up rootstock and scionwood as close as possible. The trouble I’ve read about with M111 are the burr knots and the reccomendation is to plant the graft as close to the soil as possible to prevent that. Wondering if you have a plan in place for planting?

I did a few M111 in previous years and did not have an issue with burr knots (fingers crossed). My plan is to acclimate these to my deck after the weather breaks like all trees. My hope is that they will have developed enough of a root system so that I can transplant them to 3 gal RB2s in June and grow them through the summer. When they go dormant in the fall I will start planting them.

I have some "wildlife openings" that I'm trying to construct. These are mostly 1/4 acre or less. They were clear-cut and I've been establishing clover as a base. My plan is to plant the trees in these and cage and weed mat them. Once the trees are established, I'll mow between them once a year or so. I plan to let them revert to a mix of weeds and forbs.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Yarg]

I did a few M111 in previous years and did not have an issue with burr knots (fingers crossed). My plan is to acclimate these to my deck after the weather breaks like all trees. My hope is that they will have developed enough of a root system so that I can transplant them to 3 gal RB2s in June and grow them through the summer. When they go dormant in the fall I will start planting them.

I have some "wildlife openings" that I'm trying to construct. These are mostly 1/4 acre or less. They were clear-cut and I've been establishing clover as a base. My plan is to plant the trees in these and cage and weed mat them. Once the trees are established, I'll mow between them once a year or so. I plan to let them revert to a mix of weeds and forbs.

Thanks,

Jack

I read that if you're planting fruit trees in Clover they could get too much nitrogen, put on too much growth and make them susceptible, disease breakage etc.. I have no experience, is there any truth in this...has anyone experienced issues? Thanks

 

[yoderjac]

I read that if you're planting fruit trees in Clover they could get too much nitrogen, put on too much growth and make them susceptible, disease breakage etc.. I have no experience, is there any truth in this...has anyone experienced issues? Thanks

Maybe there are some issues in some situations with a deep rooted clover. I'm planting durana. Roots of a tree are pulling nutrients from a much deeper strata of soil than shallow rooted clover. I'm very weed tolerant. My clover fields have lots of native plants that are using any excess N. Most of the N clover fixes is released after the clover dies. That is why the will terminate clover before planting a crop. Individual clover plants are always dying and new seeds are germinating over the life of a perennial clover field but the release is pretty slow when clover is alive. Also, I don't generally fertilize my apple trees.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[cavey]

I read that if you're planting fruit trees in Clover they could get too much nitrogen, put on too much growth and make them susceptible, disease breakage etc.. I have no experience, is there any truth in this...has anyone experienced issues? Thanks

I try and treat my wildlife apple tree plots or tree groupings as food plots and try and get clover established around them. (Trees have to be fenced due to the added deer draw - should be anyways until old enough to survive the browse). I also do not tend to fertilize my apple trees either unless I am starting to see some issues that could be corrected but that typically would not be corrected with N,P, or K. Im pretty certain I have never had an over abundance of nitrogen with the clover around my trees.

Most of my trees, when i keep up with them, have about a 7'x7' area around them that I have killed off the weeds to the bare dirt - mainly for rodent mice/vole control: no cover = no mice. So this may not exactly be the answer your looking for as I always strive for an area of bare dirt around my trees ,,,, They are not planted "in" clover but have clover around them and I have never had an obvious issue. Mulching them is not an option for me as I have too many trees so its round up for now and i dont want any plants near the trunks including clover.

As of last year I have bees now so weeds are not seen as the enemy like i used to think... what I did in the past was periodically (every so many years) go in and spray round-up around a large area of my trees killing back the weeds and later broadcast clover seed into the clipped back dead stubble,Im hippie'ing out and not likely to do that as much as I have an awesome dandelion bloom in the spring that the bees rock! But the spraying and seeding was a simple way to keep weeds in check, have clover and volunteer round up resistant alfalfa growing in proximity to the trees for the added deer draw - I considered the clover a plus not a negative.

 

[Yarg]

I try and treat my wildlife apple tree plots or tree groupings as food plots and try and get clover established around them. (Trees have to be fenced due to the added deer draw - should be anyways until old enough to survive the browse). I also do not tend to fertilize my apple trees either unless I am starting to see some issues that could be corrected but that typically would not be corrected with N,P, or K. Im pretty certain I have never had an over abundance of nitrogen with the clover around my trees.

Most of my trees, when i keep up with them, have about a 7'x7' area around them that I have killed off the weeds to the bare dirt - mainly for rodent mice/vole control: no cover = no mice. So this may not exactly be the answer your looking for as I always strive for an area of bare dirt around my trees ,,,, They are not planted "in" clover but have clover around them and I have never had an obvious issue. Mulching them is not an option for me as I have too many trees so its round up for now and i dont want any plants near the trunks including clover.

As of last year I have bees now so weeds are not seen as the enemy like i used to think... what I did in the past was periodically (every so many years) go in and spray round-up around a large area of my trees killing back the weeds and later broadcast clover seed into the clipped back dead stubble,Im hippie'ing out and not likely to do that as much as I have an awesome dandelion bloom in the spring that the bees rock! But the spraying and seeding was a simple way to keep weeds in check, have clover and volunteer round up resistant alfalfa growing in proximity to the trees for the added deer draw - I considered the clover a plus not a negative.

Bees are another hobby I hope to enjoy in the future.. Cover makes good honey too, right

 

[Yarg]

Bees are another hobby I hope to enjoy in the future.. Cover makes good honey too, right

"CLover"

 

[yoderjac]

I started to do some statistics on this year's apple grafting. Here is where I sit so far as to green buds or better growth:

- 19 of 41 total grafts have green.
- The 19 represent 8 of the 14 varieties I attempted.

Thanks,

Jack

My latest counts today:

- 33 of 41 total grafts have green
- They 33 represents 13 of the 14 varieties I attempted.

On a side note, I just got a shipping notice from Stark Bros on my Franklin Cider Apples.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I'm now over 90% latest counts of green buds or better:

- 38 of 41
- Representing all 14 varieties.

(Posted pics of the Franklins on the Franklin thread).

Thanks,

Jack

 

[cavey]

"CLover"

yes clover is good for the bees, some are better than others

 

[yoderjac]

I just had the last few show green buds. Only one graft did not produce a green bud. I presume the scion was bad somehow. That one produced growth from below the graft. I'll let it grow out. I had two that produced green buds that eventually turned brown and dried up. They were the only two that were grafted to a Bud9 rootstock.

Many of the grafts have clearly taken and have produced 3" - 6" of growth. Many have not produced enough growth for me to say they've taken yet. My indoor apple grafting success rated this year is over 90%. It didn't seem to matter what the grafting method I used was this year, they all seemed to work (at least so far).

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Just an updated pic:

I lost very few so far.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[PoorSand]

Nice!

 

[yoderjac]

I had the same disease issue last year. I don't know what it is. The green leaves go limp and eventually the tree dies. I tried to revive trees last year with no luck. One of the apples that got it was touching a seguin and my seguins got the disease. Here is a picture:

These trees have been growing fine for quite some time. The disease seems to hit them at any stage. In one case, I had a graft fail and the rootstock leaf-out below the graft so I let it grow for future regrafting. The non-grafted growth got it so I know this is not simply graft failure.

Anyone recognize it? Last year I learned the best thing I can do is isolate a tree as soon as I see signs of going limp. I've lost about a half dozen successful grafts to it so far.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[cavey]

They are not getting sun baked are they? I keep mine out of direct sun light for quite a bit of time.. might be a dum question but its just a thought ..

 

[yoderjac]

No, these are growing indoors under lights. The reason the picture is outdoors is that I've moved those infected trees to my deck to keep them from the good trees. They will die.

 

[BuckSnort]

I had the same disease issue last year. I don't know what it is. The green leaves go limp and eventually the tree dies. I tried to revive trees last year with no luck. One of the apples that got it was touching a seguin and my seguins got the disease. Here is a picture:

These trees have been growing fine for quite some time. The disease seems to hit them at any stage. In one case, I had a graft fail and the rootstock leaf-out below the graft so I let it grow for future regrafting. The non-grafted growth got it so I know this is not simply graft failure.

Anyone recognize it? Last year I learned the best thing I can do is isolate a tree as soon as I see signs of going limp. I've lost about a half dozen successful grafts to it so far.

Thanks,

Jack

Nothing like the highs and lows of apple tree grafting.....

 

[yoderjac]

I moved my apple trees outdoors today and put them on my lower deck to begin acclimating them. After the late failures (died after at least 6" of growth), I ended up with 34 or 41 attempts for about 83%. I'm happy with that. I plan to give them lots of time on my lower deck before moving them into full sun so I don't lose any to sunscald.

Thanks,

Jack