Perennial Plot Questions

[onlybrowning]

Hi everyone,
I am new here, but didn't immediately see a spot to introduce myself. I have piece of land that I have 2 cleared fields, both about 5 acres, that I've had some success with food plots with over the past 8-10 years. For the past several years, I've done nothing in my plots other than mow (rotary mower). They still attract deer, but I am ready to do more again. The first time I went "all in" on these fields, I rototilled or plowed them with a moldboard plow, then cultipacked them. I do not have a seed drill, so seeding has always been done with a hand spreader. During that first planting, I fertilized and limed according to the Whitetail Institute soil tests, and planted them in WI Fusion (clover and chicory mix). That process was very expensive. I have frost seeded a few times since then, but both fields are mostly not those crops anymore. They are mostly grasses and some other weeds, with some clover in there too.

Now, to the question: The ground is often too wet during first green up to run my tractor on, so I am wondering if it is advisable to spray (glyphosate) on both fields as soon as they are dry enough, then broadcast seed into the dying vegetation. My thought is that as the vegetation dies and lays down, it will provide adequate conditions for germination.

I like clover, because that's something I have experience with, but the reality is that I don't know much different. I would be open to blends and that kind of thing, but I do not want to get back into spending thousands of dollars per year to fertilize and lime. I'd also prefer to avoid plowing if I can.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Where are you located?? That'll help us give better info for your locality.

I'm no expert at soil science and agricultural stuff, but our camp (in NC Pa. mountains) has experimented with minimal-tillage food plots with some good success. Spraying with gly to kill unwanted grasses & weeds is a good start. The dying thatch will keep seeds & soil moist so they germinate better. Thatch also keeps birds & turkeys from seeing & eating your seeds before they sprout. Rye grain sprouts very easily without any tillage, so a mix of grain rye, a couple clover varieties ( medium red, Alice or Ladino white, and crimson ), some chicory, and some oats would make a good plot to start. The rye & oats aren't perennials, but they'll help improve the soil for the long-term - especially the rye with its extensive root system. We buy our seed from AG suppliers instead of big-name brands to save a lot of money.

We've had very good luck with a mix of red clover and alfalfa, which gives us a plot that lasts for about 4 or 5 years - but alfalfa requires more soil prep and good drainage to do well.

Other guys who farm or have extensive AG experience will probably have more ideas. Good luck with your plots!

 

[RGrizzzz]

Hi everyone,
I am new here, but didn't immediately see a spot to introduce myself. I have piece of land that I have 2 cleared fields, both about 5 acres, that I've had some success with food plots with over the past 8-10 years. For the past several years, I've done nothing in my plots other than mow (rotary mower). They still attract deer, but I am ready to do more again. The first time I went "all in" on these fields, I rototilled or plowed them with a moldboard plow, then cultipacked them. I do not have a seed drill, so seeding has always been done with a hand spreader. During that first planting, I fertilized and limed according to the Whitetail Institute soil tests, and planted them in WI Fusion (clover and chicory mix). That process was very expensive. I have frost seeded a few times since then, but both fields are mostly not those crops anymore. They are mostly grasses and some other weeds, with some clover in there too.

Now, to the question: The ground is often too wet during first green up to run my tractor on, so I am wondering if it is advisable to spray (glyphosate) on both fields as soon as they are dry enough, then broadcast seed into the dying vegetation. My thought is that as the vegetation dies and lays down, it will provide adequate conditions for germination.

I like clover, because that's something I have experience with, but the reality is that I don't know much different. I would be open to blends and that kind of thing, but I do not want to get back into spending thousands of dollars per year to fertilize and lime. I'd also prefer to avoid plowing if I can.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

If there is still a moderate amount of clover in the plots, you might want to try spraying them with 1q/acre glyphosate and see how the clover rebounds. You might be surprised at how it rebounds with the weed competition out of the picture. You don't mention what kind of sprayer you have. If it fits on an ATV, that will allow you into the plots much sooner than with a tractor.

 

[Thomasc19]

^^^ In Northeast PA, with heavy browse pressure, what has worked best is spray in August and plant rye/wheat mix, then come February/March frost seed medium red clover and chicory. Crimp/kill when the rye is in the water stage. Looking to try awnless wheat and oats this fall as well as sorghum, turnips, brassicas, and sunn hemp to add diversity-after read dirt to soil by gabe brown makes me really want to push for diversity in my plots. Good luck!

 

[onlybrowning]

I'm in zone 5, upstate NY. I have a Demco 55 gallon sprayer that I have about 10 feet of boom hooked up to. It is 3pt mount.

 

[onlybrowning]

If there is still a moderate amount of clover in the plots, you might want to try spraying them with 1q/acre glyphosate and see how the clover rebounds. You might be surprised at how it rebounds with the weed competition out of the picture. You don't mention what kind of sprayer you have. If it fits on an ATV, that will allow you into the plots much sooner than with a tractor.

While I am in no way certain, I think it is too far gone for that. There are definitely spots with no clover at all, and just grasses. Especially in the areas of the field where it is wetter.

 

[jsasker007]

Planting winter rye with clover and chicory works well for me and is as easy as it gets. The winter rye will help suppress weeds from coming back and makes the ground a lot easier to work if you want to disk or anything. Like you said, you can spray to burn it down and then broadcast small seeds. Throwing out your seed and then mowing is a popular way to do it too. The thatch from the mowing will help retain moisture for the new seeds. Later in the summer you could throw some brassica seeds like radish and or turnips in with whats already growing and add more to the menu.

 

[jsasker007]

After the first year your rye,clover and chicory will be coming back right away in the spring. No planting needed in the mud then.

 

[omicron1792]

If there is still a moderate amount of clover in the plots, you might want to try spraying them with 1q/acre glyphosate and see how the clover rebounds. You might be surprised at how it rebounds with the weed competition out of the picture. You don't mention what kind of sprayer you have. If it fits on an ATV, that will allow you into the plots much sooner than with a tractor.

I know you read that label, but one quart an acre will burn up a field. That might work on a thick monoculture to clean up some weeds

 

[bigboreblr]

I mild gly spraing in the spring might wake up those clovers. Definitely worth trying an acre or a corner of the field.

You could spray spring, then spread some oats or rye. Spread some more oats or rye with clover after a spraying in the late summer. Mid august for me in the adirondacks by old forge 2300ft elev. I have been doing the same thing in columbia county NY near the hudson river.

Plantain seems to be like chicory at my house plot. Doesnt get muc interest until a few frost, then the deer eat every last drop. It's hard to kill in my home, but I do not mind it there.

Doing it on the cheap, buy 50lb bags of clover. Medium red and ladino are good choices.

100lbs / acre is about right for either rye or oats with broadcasting. Spraying, then seed and cultipack a day or two later would work great.

Fall rye can keep deer around hunting season and feed them later into the winter and early in the spring.

Rye can come back from seed to some extent.

 

[FarmerDan]

I don't like recommending gly on clover. I do it, but only at certain times of the year and with certain circumstances. IMOX is a better choice for all situations and all seasons.

 

[FarmerDan]

If there is still a moderate amount of clover in the plots, you might want to try spraying them with 1q/acre glyphosate and see how the clover rebounds. You might be surprised at how it rebounds with the weed competition out of the picture. You don't mention what kind of sprayer you have. If it fits on an ATV, that will allow you into the plots much sooner than with a tractor.

Yes I would be surprised if the clover rebounds. But in a thin stand over 5 years old there's not much to lose.

 

[onlybrowning]

Thank you for all of this very helpful information!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bigboreblr]

Imox works on red aramath? Kills plantain? Looking make a good clover patch in the backyard this year before I go to turnips / rye for the fall. Would you recommend 2,4db more for red aramath. I'd like to keep the plantain around, but dont mind if it goes either. Would replace it with chicory. Might spray everything dead and do crimson clover in NY.

 

[omicron1792]

Imox works on red aramath? Kills plantain? Looking make a good clover patch in the backyard this year before I go to turnips / rye for the fall. Would you recommend 2,4db more for red aramath. I'd like to keep the plantain around, but dont mind if it goes either. Would replace it with chicory. Might spray everything dead and do crimson clover in NY.

4mg of imox will keep most of the plantain and chicory.

 

[bigboreblr]

onlybrowning,

You do anything to your plots yet? It's not too late to get a summer plot in. Could buy buckwehat, or spread oats and a few different clovers. Those clovers make nitrogen, which the excess nitrogen is liked by grasses n weeds. The trick is to introduce plants you want to feed on that nitrogen.

With what you own, I'd spray dead with gly, wait a few days, spread seed, cultipack, then mow. The oats is a great plot for spring summer and fall. Could even pass up on a spearate fall planting, or sprinkle in some turnips and rye. either way put some clovers in because they take time to establish. Medium red and ladino would work fine together.

No seed drill? IF you have a set of discs, you could buy a 12v spreader and mount it above it, might need to put some plywood side up to keep the seed around the discs.

Im in zone 5 NY as well, Germantown. PAst few years I have been planting rye into clover around labor day. The deer enjoy the cold weather growth of rye in the fal and in the winter/spring when other stuff isn't greened up. Once everything is out and green a bit and deer have all that to eat, spray the field with a light dose of gly. Many people do between a pint and a pint and a half of 41% an acre. You could mow your clover plot in late june early july, once the fawns are strong enough to move good on their own and don't need to cover. Don't need to mow, but it can keep weeds down if you mow them before the seeds become mature.

 

[RGrizzzz]

4mg of imox will keep most of the plantain and chicory.

Imox has a residual period, so be careful what you want to plant after spraying it. Grains might get killed, if planted too close to spraying.

 

[omicron1792]

Imox has a residual period, so be careful what you want to plant after spraying it. Grains might get killed, if planted too close to spraying.

I have found that Imox has about the two month residual, imazathrpyr has four months.

 

[onlybrowning]

onlybrowning,

You do anything to your plots yet? It's not too late to get a summer plot in. Could buy buckwehat, or spread oats and a few different clovers. Those clovers make nitrogen, which the excess nitrogen is liked by grasses n weeds. The trick is to introduce plants you want to feed on that nitrogen.

With what you own, I'd spray dead with gly, wait a few days, spread seed, cultipack, then mow. The oats is a great plot for spring summer and fall. Could even pass up on a spearate fall planting, or sprinkle in some turnips and rye. either way put some clovers in because they take time to establish. Medium red and ladino would work fine together.

No seed drill? IF you have a set of discs, you could buy a 12v spreader and mount it above it, might need to put some plywood side up to keep the seed around the discs.

Im in zone 5 NY as well, Germantown. PAst few years I have been planting rye into clover around labor day. The deer enjoy the cold weather growth of rye in the fal and in the winter/spring when other stuff isn't greened up. Once everything is out and green a bit and deer have all that to eat, spray the field with a light dose of gly. Many people do between a pint and a pint and a half of 41% an acre. You could mow your clover plot in late june early july, once the fawns are strong enough to move good on their own and don't need to cover. Don't need to mow, but it can keep weeds down if you mow them before the seeds become mature.

I haven't done anything yet...Definitely still too wet to drive the tractor on most of it without making really bad ruts. In reading through the recommendation above, I see spray with glyphosate, spread seed, cultipack, then mow. I didn't think I'd need to cultipack or mow in this scenario. Is that to speed up the process of germination since the vegetation takes time to die off and fall over on its own?