Starting trees from green cuttings (Building a mister)

[yoderjac]

I have not had much luck starting trees from green cuttings. I've done ok with dormant cuttings from easy to root plants like yellow twig dogwood and elderberry, but I've really had not success with green cuttings. I've even tried a "cloning machine" (subterranean irrigation). I understand some mulberry varieties root easily and other don't. I got a few mulberry trees and planted them in the field last year. They were still green and actively growing and I tried to start some of those cuttings without success. I was doing some reading online and some folks are having success with misting.

When I first started growing chestnuts from nuts years ago, I experimented with different kinds of indoor growing areas. One large one, I don't use anymore so I had plenty of pvc that I could repurpose. My current plan is to build a small enclosure out of PVC and cover it with a clear shower curtain. I'll put it on my lower deck that gets a few hours of direct morning sun followed by filtered sun for the rest of the morning and shade in the afternoon.

I just ordered a misting system. It consists of a timing unit that can control watering down to a few minutes, some misting nozzles, and some tubing and connectors. I plan to run the tubing with misting nozzles along the inside top of the enclosure. I was thinking of running it so it mists for 30 seconds every 10 minutes or so.

I'll post some pictures as things progress. Has anyone built one of these? Any success with starting green cuttings this way?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Prof.Kent]

I have not had much luck starting trees from green cuttings. I've done ok with dormant cuttings from easy to root plants like yellow twig dogwood and elderberry, but I've really had not success with green cuttings. I've even tried a "cloning machine" (subterranean irrigation). I understand some mulberry varieties root easily and other don't. I got a few mulberry trees and planted them in the field last year. They were still green and actively growing and I tried to start some of those cuttings without success. I was doing some reading online and some folks are having success with misting.

When I first started growing chestnuts from nuts years ago, I experimented with different kinds of indoor growing areas. One large one, I don't use anymore so I had plenty of pvc that I could repurpose. My current plan is to build a small enclosure out of PVC and cover it with a clear shower curtain. I'll put it on my lower deck that gets a few hours of direct morning sun followed by filtered sun for the rest of the morning and shade in the afternoon.

I just ordered a misting system. It consists of a timing unit that can control watering down to a few minutes, some misting nozzles, and some tubing and connectors. I plan to run the tubing with misting nozzles along the inside top of the enclosure. I was thinking of running it so it mists for 30 seconds every 10 minutes or so.

I'll post some pictures as things progress. Has anyone built one of these? Any success with starting green cuttings this way?

Thanks,

Jack

No experience in growing from cuttings but from reading about it it sounds like you want to use new growth. Some day I plan on multiplying blueberries by cuttings. You start with new growth in early summer in light soil, rooting hormone, and misting.

 

[cavey]

I have most of the parts to build a two tub mister ,,, just have not had the time do the build. The pot growers have mastered this art, there is alot of google/you tube vids and info on the units especially DIY projects. Tons of parts pieces out there to from all the hydroponic supply websites.

actually I may be talking a different thing than you.... top mister and then a bottom mister in a dark sealed tank with a timer and root hormone in the water mix for cloning and green cuttings. plants are held in foam collars and net pots and suspended in air.

 

[marlin]

Temperature is the key. I bought 2 EZ Cloners and had horrible luck until I moved them out to my shop and kept temperature a constant 72 degrees. Changing rooting compounds to Clonex helped improve success rate also. I believe temperature is the key regardless of what growing medium is used.

 

[yoderjac]

Prof.Kent,

Yes, I plan to use new growth. I've seen a lot of folks claim success using a box of sand and putting it in a white garbage bag as a tent and placing it outdoors in the shade. I tried that and had not success. Perhaps I did not keep the moisture level up enough or perhaps the varieties I was using did not root easily enough. I'm not sure.

cavey,

The cloning machine I have (can't recall the brand) doesn't use a timer. It constantly sprays the stems from below which are placed through foam rings. You can use rooting compound like Clonex or whatever either in the water or directly on the stems. I was considering doing exactly what you say putting the mister on top. Some of the reading I did suggested that the interaction with the sand particles helps promote rooting so I decided to go that route instead. Post your results back here if you get around to building yours and using it.

marlin,

Temperature was evidently not the limiting factor for me. I used an aquarium heater to keep the water at a constant temperature and still had no luck.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Well, tomorrow is the day. I collected some mulberry cuttings yesterday. I hope they keep. I cut off most of the leaves and cut them into sections that would fit in ziplock bags. I sprayed them with water and put them in a ziplock bag in the fridge.

I finished the PVC work on the misting system. I plan to cover it with plastic tomorrow, set it up, and plant the mulberry cuttings. Any thoughts on medium? I've read that guys have success with a high percentage of sand in the mix. I'll try to take some pics tomorrow.

Also, for now, I'm going to use the misting timer that came with the kit and connect it to my tap water. I don't think mulberries are as picky about water as chestnuts, but I may want to use the mister for other things. I'm already starting to think about indoor use. If I did that, I'd want to collect and recycle the water. The pump I just bought for pumping gly from a 30 gal drum runs on a 12 volt battery. I was thinking about using one of those to drive the mister. I could rig up a timer that would drive the pump. Another option might be an aquarium water pump like the one in my cloning machine. I could repurpose that with a timer.

I think the question becomes how best to filter the water. Bits of medium and stuff will wash off and that can be murder on a diaphragm pump. I'm leaning toward some kind of passive gravity filtering when the water is drained and collected. Any thoughts? My main concern with using the mister timer indoors is that if something goes wrong and the unit fails open, a lot of water could do damage to the house. With a water recycling approach, the amount of water is limited.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[cavey]

My intent with my cloner/mister build was to have a couple different sediment drop out points, bottom of the plant tubs with the drain plumbing raised up a bit so that any debris would settle out then a screen box to act as a floating debris filter, same thing with the reservoir which is just a poly drum, then the pump was to be set in a foam filtering box raised off the bottom, sediment should be minimal as mine was/is to be a medium less system but stuff gets in, and plant material may break off, like you said anything that passes through those small pumps can be an issue. I wanted a 100%contained closed system - also with enough of a water volume so that any escaped moisture would not be an issue. Im going to build it all into a benched concept like a gardening work bench. If it goes into the garage I may build a base that is tub like to contain any leak. The water return will be gravity based and the filtering will have to also be passive. I just intend to build some redundancy into it with multiple areas to filter - I just didnt want any point "too perfect" that it might clog.

 

[yoderjac]

I finished 95% of the mister today. Here are some pics

The basic sections. The unit can be torn down for flat storage to this level.

The basic sections assembled.

This top bar is for adding a top tent for outdoor use so the rain does not pool on the flat top. I was out of 90 degree fittings so I temporarily used 3-way fittings. Note that the vertical pipes are tied in with bolts so the entire unit can be lifted by the top bar.

The basic assembled unit with the mister plumbing added.

Top and end covers added. Note they are held in place with Velcro so they can be removed for disassembly.

The unit fully assembled.

Assembled unit operating with mulberry cuttings. Note that I still need to add the rain tent at the top.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Finished the rain shield on the misting chamber tonight:

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Skelly]

Did you figure out the filtration system for collecting water.

You can order rolls of filter (my filter is about 2” thick) similar to what is used for filtering water for pumps on koi ponds. You may be able to line the bottom. It would be removable for cleaning.

 

[yoderjac]

Did you figure out the filtration system for collecting water.

You can order rolls of filter (my filter is about 2” thick) similar to what is used for filtering water for pumps on koi ponds. You may be able to line the bottom. It would be removable for cleaning.

For outdoor use and mulberries (which generally don't seem to be as sensitive to water as chestnuts), I'm just connecting to the city water and using it outside with no recycling. I've been trying to nut-graft chestnuts with very limited success so far. My technique is improving but they need a very high humidity environment until everything takes and then require slow acclimation to normal humidity.

I'm considering using the misting chamber indoors over the winter for that. That is where I'll need to do recycling. I have a concept designed in my head but I have not started to implement it yet. Here is my concept:

I currently have rack tables that I uses with my RM18s with fluorescent lights above them. The are an open frame design build from 2x4s with wire shelving rack that form the top. I'm thinking of placing the chamber on one of these tables. I would then hang a tarp under the table at a slope in both directions so all water drain off at the front center.

My next step would be to cut a 5 gal bucket in half (horizontally) to form a first stage collection tray. I'd use some threaded PVC adapters connected through a hole in the bottom of the bucket as a drain. The top of the adapter inside the bucket would be about an inch above the bottom of the bucket. So, the bucket would hold about 1" of water. Anything more than that would drain out through the connectors. I would then hang about a 6" section of pantyhose around the adapter that sticks out below the bottom of the bucket that would act as a filter.

This bucket would sit on another 5 gal bucket so that about 50% of the bottom of the 1st stage bucket, including the filter, would overlap the lower bucket. The filter would hang into the lower bucket. I would put something under the other 50% of the 1st stage bucket to balance it (perhaps another 5 gal bucket turned upside down).

I'd place a small piece of 2x4 in the bottom of the second bucket and then place an aquarium pump on it to drive the mister.

Here is my concept of how it would operate: Water and medium particles from misting would drain through the wire shelving onto the tarp. Water would then drain into that first stage bucket on top. Heavier particles would settle in the bottom of the 1st stage bucket. When the water level hit 1" in the bucket water and any floating particles would go through the drain and into the panty hose filter and then into the second stage bucket. Here, particles would have more time to settle. Again, heavy particles would settle to the bottom below the 2x4 and light particles would float on top. The pump would pick up the filtered water.

I would replace the pantyhose filter as needed. I would also clean the sediment out of the buckets as needed. I would keep the second stage bucket about 3/4 full of rainwater adding as needed. This would be a completely passive system and the pump could be inexpensive not needing to draw through a filter.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Skelly]

For outdoor use and mulberries (which generally don't seem to be as sensitive to water as chestnuts), I'm just connecting to the city water and using it outside with no recycling. I've been trying to nut-graft chestnuts with very limited success so far. My technique is improving but they need a very high humidity environment until everything takes and then require slow acclimation to normal humidity.

I'm considering using the misting chamber indoors over the winter for that. That is where I'll need to do recycling. I have a concept designed in my head but I have not started to implement it yet. Here is my concept:

I currently have rack tables that I uses with my RM18s with fluorescent lights above them. The are an open frame design build from 2x4s with wire shelving rack that form the top. I'm thinking of placing the chamber on one of these tables. I would then hang a tarp under the table at a slope in both directions so all water drain off at the front center.

My next step would be to cut a 5 gal bucket in half (horizontally) to form a first stage collection tray. I'd use some threaded PVC adapters connected through a hole in the bottom of the bucket as a drain. The top of the adapter inside the bucket would be about an inch above the bottom of the bucket. So, the bucket would hold about 1" of water. Anything more than that would drain out through the connectors. I would then hang about a 6" section of pantyhose around the adapter that sticks out below the bottom of the bucket that would act as a filter.

This bucket would sit on another 5 gal bucket so that about 50% of the bottom of the 1st stage bucket, including the filter, would overlap the lower bucket. The filter would hang into the lower bucket. I would put something under the other 50% of the 1st stage bucket to balance it (perhaps another 5 gal bucket turned upside down).

I'd place a small piece of 2x4 in the bottom of the second bucket and then place an aquarium pump on it to drive the mister.

Here is my concept of how it would operate: Water and medium particles from misting would drain through the wire shelving onto the tarp. Water would then drain into that first stage bucket on top. Heavier particles would settle in the bottom of the 1st stage bucket. When the water level hit 1" in the bucket water and any floating particles would go through the drain and into the panty hose filter and then into the second stage bucket. Here, particles would have more time to settle. Again, heavy particles would settle to the bottom below the 2x4 and light particles would float on top. The pump would pick up the filtered water.

I would replace the pantyhose filter as needed. I would also clean the sediment out of the buckets as needed. I would keep the second stage bucket about 3/4 full of rainwater adding as needed. This would be a completely passive system and the pump could be inexpensive not needing to draw through a filter.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Jack

Yep. I believe I am following you.

That can be a pretty slick set up.

 

[yoderjac]

Got home from the farm today and decided to check it. I'm sure glad I did. Everything was drying out. The end of the T connector (filter housing) blew out. The timer was still operating but it was just pouring 10 seconds of water on my deck every 10 minutes. Not good! I shoved a quarter in the end of the filter housing. It is working now but has a small leak. I'll try to get to lowes tomorrow to get a new end cap.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Skelly]

Got home from the farm today and decided to check it. I'm sure glad I did. Everything was drying out. The end of the T connector (filter housing) blew out. The timer was still operating but it was just pouring 10 seconds of water on my deck every 10 minutes. Not good! I shoved a quarter in the end of the filter housing. It is working now but has a small leak. I'll try to get to lowes tomorrow to get a new end cap.

Thanks,

Jack

I know you said you have repurposed but how much do you think you have into this set up? (If it was original set up)

 

[yoderjac]

I know you said you have repurposed but how much do you think you have into this set up? (If it was original set up)

Well, I bought a kit for the mister that was way more than I needed for this project. The kit was $90 delivered but I'm only actually using 3 of the misting heads and a few feet of the tubing. $35 of that $90 was for the misting timer that was in the kit. If you only wanted a setup like the one I'm using, you could probably pick up the tubing and misting heads at lowes for under $20. So that would take you to $55 for the misting components and timer.

For the enclosure assume you need 8 outlet elbows (3-ways) that run about $3. If you want to make the rain shield for the top like I did, add 2 Ts and 2 elbows so that takes up to about a dozen connectors. That is in the ball park of $36 in connectors. You probably don't need schedule 40 for the pipe so I'd figure about $4 per 10' of pipe. You can build it to whatever dimensions you like. If you don't use schedule 40 I'd say mine has about $12 of pipe in it.

I used a combination of duct tape and stick on Velcro. The Velcro ran about $17 but that is only because I made it so I can disassemble it. If you don't need to disassemble it duct tape is fine and would save you the cost of Velcro.

So, I'd guess you could duplicate this for a little over $100 if you wanted.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Skelly]

Well, I bought a kit for the mister that was way more than I needed for this project. The kit was $90 delivered but I'm only actually using 3 of the misting heads and a few feet of the tubing. $35 of that $90 was for the misting timer that was in the kit. If you only wanted a setup like the one I'm using, you could probably pick up the tubing and misting heads at lowes for under $20. So that would take you to $55 for the misting components and timer.

For the enclosure assume you need 8 outlet elbows (3-ways) that run about $3. If you want to make the rain shield for the top like I did, add 2 Ts and 2 elbows so that takes up to about a dozen connectors. That is in the ball park of $36 in connectors. You probably don't need schedule 40 for the pipe so I'd figure about $4 per 10' of pipe. You can build it to whatever dimensions you like. If you don't use schedule 40 I'd say mine has about $12 of pipe in it.

I used a combination of duct tape and stick on Velcro. The Velcro ran about $17 but that is only because I made it so I can disassemble it. If you don't need to disassemble it duct tape is fine and would save you the cost of Velcro.

So, I'd guess you could duplicate this for a little over $100 if you wanted.

Thanks,

Jack

I make just about everything I need. I like the idea of this.

I have elderberry, yellow and silky’s I plan on putting in select areas this is a great set up to get that going

 

[yoderjac]

I miscounted the Ts for you. There are actually 4 more than in my count above.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I emailed the company I bought the kit from. They are sending me another end cap. They said my house water pressure may be too high. I plan to put a regulator in line when the new cap comes, but the quarter seems to be working fine.

BTW, I don't think the water was off long enough to hurt the mulberries. I checked them this afternoon and they look ok.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Skelly]

I went over to a friend of mine from work ‘s house a couple weeks ago and while I was there I found a 3’ mulberry plant growing in his back yard

He said he would dig it up for me a bring it in. I told him to make sure he put it in some water So the roots wouldn’t dry out. A few days later he shows up with it. I was appreciative but he just had it in the bed of his truck uncovered.

I grabbed a garbage bag packed with leaves and soaked the roots until I got home that night.

I’ve had it planted for about a 2 weeks all the leaves died except for a small bottom branch. the leaves are green (5-6)and look like they are going to be ok. Anyway my point is that I believe they are pretty hardy plant.

 

[yoderjac]

Do you know if it is a male or female tree?